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@ 31 May. 2007 – 08:19:10
this is very strange indeed, and worth watching even if you do not have sound. i had the distinct impression that this was somehow one 'universal' woman, which i have never experienced before when looking at art.
what i also got from this was a distinctly male impression of woman; coquettish, subservient (demure), objectified...or am i being unreasonable?
angelkirstin
trolly
oh dear. here, try the link at YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs
hope that works!
:-)
all best
trolly x
blighty
You are right. Traditional art is the record of art through mens eyes, whether they be heterosexual or homosexual men. As you'll know, this really only began to change in the 19th and 20th.
trolly
i think what is interesting, is if you look at the women's eyes in the video....it takes until the late 19thC/early 20th C for the women to be portrayed as looking directly out of the picture and at the viewer...
of course, this is just a small selection of images...but i think the idea stands nonetheless.
trolly x
suzeemoon
Wow! Thanks for hint about not needing sound as mine's not working at the moment.
That was amazing. I think your comments are spot on Trolly. I remember coming across the phrase 'man's imagined woman' and having a 'Eureka' moment and 'seeing' it everywhere from Greek vases to science fiction and of course throughout the visual arts.
This is what I wrote in a paper on 'Hidden Women':
Women in history proved to be very elusive. My chosen option of Women in Classical Antiquity highlighted just how difficult to find they can be. I decided to write about images of women on Greek vases but had some concern about how this could have a "feminist perspective". To my surprise, not only did I succeed in finding a feminist perspective but I was completely taken aback by the narrowness of the images of women. King's (1992:34) comments on "man's imagined women... the good mother; the chaste maiden; the whore; the witch; the smiling naked" was so true of my observations of Greek vase painting that I was overwhelmed. Far from worrying about my ability to unearth a feminist perspective I was now in danger of writing a feminist polemic on the representation of women in Classical Greek Antiquity.
trolly
what interesting research :-)....i had it in mind that in ancient Greek society that women's position was quite different, that is for the wealthy; and that there was considerably more sexual freedom and tolerance (for homosexuality that is). but it seems it was the same as it ever was for women. pretty depressing.
trolly x
suzeemoon
Ancient Greek women had very little freedom - and what I saw rang bells elsewhere for me, along lines of the video you posted and earlier dialogue we and others have had on women:
"This view of the appropriate sphere for women, however, not only reflects the male idea of its time but also the dominant culture of the ruling classes of ancient Greece. A woman whose sole domain was her household could also be seen as a symbol of her husband's wealth. This division of duties can be compared, for example, with the Victorian ideal of the woman as mother and guardian of the household. While it was true of the Victorian moneyed classes and held as an ideal it was not typical of the working classes where a woman's labour was essential for the survival of herself and/or her family. Similarly in classical Athens poor women, lacking slaves could not live in this secluded "ideal" as they were the ones who needed to fetch water, wash clothes, market etc. Pomeroy (1975: 73) states that poorer women, even citizens, went out to work, most of them pursuing occupations that were an extension of women's work in the house such as woolworking and clothes washing. Selling, nursing and midwifery were also female trades.
Women in Ancient Greece were then, doubly hidden. Women from wealthy families were closeted away at the dictate of the societal norms and poorer working women were rendered invisible by lack of scrutiny; a not unfamiliar attitude to women's work throughout the ages!
The man-made images on Greek vases did not appear to stray beyond good mother, chaste maiden, whore, witch and smiling naked."
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You unreasonable??? never!
however
all i have is a blank screen so it is certainly a very different!
kx